Babies on the Brain...Discussion topic...

[1elephant]

i was the neighborhood babysitter as well...went into teaching to be around kids and to have a more flexible schedule - not to mention benefits...keith wants to wait until i have tenure to start TTC, which makes sense, and gives me time to pay off my debt....but i have baby fever NOW and don't want to wait another 3 years...i, like many of you, figured i'd be married and on my first baby by 25...but i'll be 27 next week, and FI will be 29 next week, so another three years - 30!!! seems like forever...

 

on the flip side, tho, i don't want to work - i want to be a stay-at-home mom, so in order for that to happen, we'll certainly have to time it right.

[MikkiStreak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meandpaul Well, my situation is a bit different. I got pregnant and had my daughter at 17. I love my daughter with all that I am although I am glad that I had her early and unexpected. I am not a "baby" person. I dont want this to sound harsh and ungrateful but I do not want more children. I love babies as long as they are someone else's. My friends have small children and I can play with them but then I am ready for them to go home. I think part of my reluctancy to have more kids comes from my experience with my daughter. It has been hard. I know most of that is b/c I had her so young. I was 7 months pregnant when I graduated high school. I never married her father (he was, and still is, an ass). I have had to do most of this on my own (although my mom helped a lot, she doesnt replace a "partner/husband/father"). Financially, buying a home, sending myself to college, working full-time, school full-time, making sure daughter has all that she needs and some of what she wants. She is now 15 and the emotional part of her life (boys, peer pressure, school) has given a new definition to the term "difficult raising a child". I know all parents go through some of these obstacles but maybe it helps to explain my reason for not wanting to procreate any more. I even checked into being a surrogate for a family. They decided to go another route b/c it had been so long since I had my daughter (they were going to spend a lot of $ so they wanted someone who they felt could "more certainly" give them a child). Anyway...just my thoughts...hope I didn't come across as an ungrateful heifer.

Sheez, I think you crawled inside my head... "ditto" doesn't even come close to how similar I feel on this subject...

When I was young (high school, etc...) I really wanted kids---- almost everything was 'geared' toward that mentality. And then I met the perfect asshole, found out I was pregnant at 19, and so began the roller coaster.

My story is slightly different tho. As some of you know (and most don't)- I gave birth and gave in to pressure--- I placed her for adoption. That experience was enough to shatter me in every sense of the word. It took about 4 years before I even got to the point where I wanted to "fix" myself mentally/emotionally.

But despite that experience, I've never wanted any more children. In a generalized, concept way--- I just like my life the way it is and at my age (37), I have no energy, ambition, or desire to run around after a small child for years and years, and wind up almost being a senior citizen standing up as one of the "parents" at a high school graduation.

I love kids---- Frank and I constantly are oohing & aaahing over kids, and we'll even make the comments like 'awww, don't you want to have a mini-us?'..... and then the child screams, throws a tantrum- and we look at each other like, 'screw that' and keep walking.

And even tho my daughter was adopted at birth---- fast forward to her life at 14 and that's where I entered again and have had to assume the role of parenting her, because both of her "parents" (I use that term very loosely to describe these people's role in her life) stopped being parents when she was 10 and they stuck her in group homes/homeless shelters/foster homes.

*This* reality is far sufficient to kill any idea or vague fleeting desire to parent anyone else. It's taken 3 years to get Audrey's life stabilized and focused in the right direction. There isn't anything I want to see happen that would throw it all out the window again...

[Birdie07]

This is a great thread...I loved reading everyones responses. I too was the neighborhood babysitter and not only that I've been a nanny for 5 years and worked in daycares. I've never worked outside childcare. As a teenager I never wanted kids, I was adamant against them. But ever since I found out I might not be able to have children I want them. Strange isn't it? My FI very much wants kids but he's always been we'll try to have them and if it's not in the books we'll adopt. So even if they aren't my biological children I can still adopt kids and love them just as much.

 

What irks me is people who can have kids up the hoolah (haha) and then abuse them or girls who are hoochies and have abortions. I am pro-choice but I believe if you're out there having sex either use protection or own up. I'm gonna step off my soap box before I get carried away. But congrats to all the BDW girls expecting. Call me if you need a babysitter

[MikkiStreak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliaA07 What irks me is people who can have kids up the hoolah (haha) and then abuse them or girls who are hoochies and have abortions.

MODS: FEEL FREE TO DELETE IF YOU THINK THIS IS 'INFLAMMATORY'
(not intended that way, but I realize our goal is to encourage while discussing- and maybe this doesn't fit that category)

ok, I gotta comment because this is one of my pet peeves----

stereo-typing without cause. The "ability" to abuse children has absolutely nothing to do with one's ability/inability to biologically procreate. In fact, a huge reason why we hear so much about abuse of biological children as opposed to adopted children, is because the media is geared to view adoption as "loving" solution, and the financial backing that drives the politics of adoption comes from adoptive parents, not young unwed mothers. Only when one attends adult adoption workshops/seminars/support groups, will one actually hear the stories of what life is really like for adopted kids--- an equal number of the stories will be "happy" and "sad"...

And stereo-typing the majority of women who have had abortions as "hoochies" is really offensive to me, to be honest. Most of the studies done on abortion statistics show the demographic with the highest number of abortions to be the middle-class white girls----- most of whom aren't promiscuous, but are simply young, ignorant of the real facts about sex, and unaware of other resources available to them.

[starchild]

I've always wanted kids but as of today I don't feel like sharing my resources and time with a child. If it happens tomorrow I'll adapt - fast. And it will be beautiful and I'll love being mommy. But as of November '07 I enjoy sleeping in with my hubby and doing what we want when we want to. I know having a baby will change that (but be good in other ways of course). Hubby has wanted a baby for years but he wants me to want it too. I'm getting there, but not actively pursuing it, if that makes sense?

 

Now . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliaA07 What irks me is people who can have kids up the hoolah (haha) and then abuse them or girls who are hoochies and have abortions. I am pro-choice but I believe if you're out there having sex either use protection or own up.

Oh boy. I (like Maria) can't hold my tongue on this one. You are as entitled to that opinion as I am to mine, and I will respectfully disagree. Benefit of the doubt says you don't mean all girls who have abortions are hoochies. Also your definition of a hoochie may be different than someone else's, but it certainly sounds stereotypical.

 

I will say, however, that thinking someone who is pregnant should own up rather than have an abortion is not pro-choice. One might argue that it is the polar opposite. Being pro-choice comes without conditions and judgements like that. And you are entitled to those judgements but those who are truly pro-choice may take umbrage at that interpretation of the stance. I, for one, do.

 

Pro-choice means that one's right to abortion is respected without prejudice and without regard to the manner in which the individual became pregnant. It means that it is irrelevant whether a woman is pregnant because she doesn't use condoms, uses one that breaks, is raped, or a host of other possible scenarios.

[Birdie07]

I'm sorry for hurting ones opinions. I was on my way out of the door and wrote it kind of fast.

 

First let me say I do not clump all woman in to one batch. I don't believe all girls who have had abortions are hoochies. I have very personal thoughts on this I'd rather not share. I work with CPS very closely and handle cases of children who have been taken out of their families houses and put into foster care so I have a glimpse that foster care is not that great. I actually have quite a few big disagreements with it.

 

Yes I am pro-choice on that women who have been raped, incest have every right to make that choice. But I also see girls who are just out there and know in every way they could become pregnant and see abortion as a quick easy way to solve the problem.

 

Seeing the children I do and the families I've seen the bad and good of both sides of foster care. I've also seen the abuse of children first hand. Being a child of an abusive family and then working with it might make me biased. But I didn't mean to come out and be stereotypical which I'm not. Growing up I adamantly did not want children because I did not want to raise my children like I was raised. It took me a while and alot of people to tell me just b/c of my abuse I would not do the same. As soon as I realized this and got use to the idea of wanting children I had it ripped away from me. Then I go in and see these children who have all the hope in the world, and being abused and women who have 5 abortions and just can't seem to get in their head how to stop it and wonder how crazy this world is.

 

I apologize for the post before but I didn't have the time and just typed up something. But I do want to say I didn't mean to hurt anyones feelings with the post. Feel free to delete it if you like.

[starchild]

I don't think your post should be deleted (unless a moderator wants to delete mine and Maria's too). It is a forum for discussion, and we all don't have to agree. We all must have respect and as far as I see it we all do.

 

I still stand by the belief that if I am pro-choice I cannot be selective about it. I have relatives who are strong pro-life advocates - unless the pregnancy is a result of rape/incest. I always take issue with them because if abortion is sinful/immoral/etc. how can they support it on any level? It is still electing to terminate a pregnancy in my eyes, no matter how it is justified. But I digress...

 

What you have been through stinks and it definitely sheds light on why you feel how you do. Kudos to you for working in a field that tries to remedy those issues. I know there are women who use abortion as birth control, but there are usually other issues at play. I think they should still have the right to abortion without prejudice. In an ideal society they would also have counseling to get to the root of the issues. In real life that doesn't always happen. If a woman chooses to have her 6th abortion rather than birth a child the state may have to raise, who am I to judge her and I wouldn't try to stop her.

 

I do appreciate your response )

[Christine]

I don't think its necessary to delete the comments, that being said I appreciate everyone's honest opinions.

I would like to say please make sure you clarify your thoughts before putting strong opinions out there (that's what I tell my students and I think its a good rule to live by).

[boscobel]

Maria - I never knew that story. I can't imagine having to go thru adoption. But that is great that you were able to step in and help straighten her life out. I don't understand how were these people able to adopt in the first place?? I am so sorry that your daughter had to go thru that in her life, but she seems lucky to be back with you.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiStreak And even tho my daughter was adopted at birth---- fast forward to her life at 14 and that's where I entered again and have had to assume the role of parenting her, because both of her "parents" (I use that term very loosely to describe these people's role in her life) stopped being parents when she was 10 and they stuck her in group homes/homeless shelters/foster homes.   *This* reality is far sufficient to kill any idea or vague fleeting desire to parent anyone else. It's taken 3 years to get Audrey's life stabilized and focused in the right direction. There isn't anything I want to see happen that would throw it all out the window again...

[MikkiStreak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliaA07 First let me say I do not clump all woman in to one batch. I don't believe all girls who have had abortions are hoochies. I have very personal thoughts on this I'd rather not share. I work with CPS very closely and handle cases of children who have been taken out of their families houses and put into foster care so I have a glimpse that foster care is not that great. I actually have quite a few big disagreements with it. I agree--- foster care / group homes, etc... are a great "concept", but just like a lot of things--- when you add human influence and political/government sponsorship, the reality gets muddied and separated from the original concept. But, here's something to consider---- 1) How many families in the US are created thru biology -vs- other methods? 2) Of those numbers, what is the rate of abuse within each segment? The point I'm trying to make is that the same societal issues that plague biological families, also plague adoptive families. The difference tho is that the quantity of biological families out there is higher than those created by adoption, and without looking "outside the box", it's easy to stereo-type that abuse is primarily an issue prevalent in biological homes. Another thing that skews the numbers, is that a *lot* of adopted kids out there have been raised to feel like they are indebted to their adopted parents. Those kids are more willing to hide abuse because they know what it's like to be taken from one family and put into another, and they usually don't want to have that experience again in their lives. And- there is still a huge number of adopted families that "hide" their adoption status from the general public. So a great number of families that are believed to be biological, are in fact- adopted. Yes I am pro-choice on that women who have been raped, incest have every right to make that choice. But I also see girls who are just out there and know in every way they could become pregnant and see abortion as a quick easy way to solve the problem. I think it's easy to believe this, but I also think there's a lot of 'behind the scenes' that people easily ignore. First, most kids are a product of environment & conditioning. Example: If you grow up being abused, unloved, ignored, neglected---- you have to consider the affect this has on someone. Human nature leads us to find our own way to "fix" that, and for most girls- they find that in the form of a boy who pays positive attention to them. Just like if you come across a child who has been neglected---- they are starving for some positive attention, and they will usually take that wherever they can, from whoever they can. You also have kids who simply don't think they are worth much, and this affects their behavior also. It's a socio-economic fact that like minded people gravitate toward like minded people. If you have a kid growing up low income, without positive influences around them to show them anything better, then what can we expect but more of the same behavior? How are they supposed to want this "great life" everyone talks about, if they've never known that kind of life to exist in their own reality? Seeing the children I do and the families I've seen the bad and good of both sides of foster care. I've also seen the abuse of children first hand. Being a child of an abusive family and then working with it might make me biased. But I didn't mean to come out and be stereotypical which I'm not. Growing up I adamantly did not want children because I did not want to raise my children like I was raised. It took me a while and alot of people to tell me just b/c of my abuse I would not do the same. As soon as I realized this and got use to the idea of wanting children I had it ripped away from me. Then I go in and see these children who have all the hope in the world, and being abused and women who have 5 abortions and just can't seem to get in their head how to stop it and wonder how crazy this world is. It drives me nuts when I hear people saying things like "she has options, she doesn't have to get an abortion" or "she doesn't have to get an abortion- she could place that kid for adoption" or "she should raise her kid." The reality is, girls are told they have those three options, but that's about all they know. I knew what my "options" were--- abortion, adoption, raising her. But in that moment when I found out I was pregnant, I found out how little I really knew about each of them. Abortion information was easily available--- but I had no clue about the methods, risks, and emotional/mental impact of abortion. I knew about adoption- hell, I'm an adopted child myself. But I had no clue about types of adoption (closed, semi-private, open) or agency -vs- private, or any of the legalities about it, much less the long-term consequences for myself *and* my child. And I knew raising my child was an option---- but I had no knowledge of welfare programs, health programs, WIC, etc... that could help me until I could financially provide for her on my own. And most of all---- I had no clue where to even start getting that information so I could make a decision. So, in the highest state of ignorance I've ever had in my life, I made a life-changing decision that has been deemed as an "informed decision" by society. Ironically, it wasn't until about 5 years after this event, when I began to do public-speaking about each of these options, that I actually could have made a truly "informed" decision.

blah, blah, blah---- since I put my replies within the quote, i didn't meet the minimum word count to post this, without adding something here...