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Question for those against dolphin swims/rides...


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#11 BarefootBride

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    Posted 07 May 2008 - 10:27 PM

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lambert13
    I'll start of by saying that much like Morgan, I am 100% against using animals for human enjoyment. To me, the whole swimming with dolphins is disgusting, inhuman and bad for both the animal and the human.......................
    Those are just my opinions and trust me that I respect whatever you feel you should do. You will just never find me participating in any of that.
    Geez I feel bad now... we are going to NZ for our honeymoon and wanted to go dolphin watching and maybe swim with them... but they are all wild there - should I feel bad?
    Gosh now I feel bad for taking my little Pre Kindergarten kids to the Zoo two weeks ago. We are learning about animals and most of them will never get the see most of them if they didnt have the chance to go. I thought I was doing a good thing... yeah we enjoyed it (bad us) - MAN have you ever seen an OKAPI I never knew it existed... and it almost doesnt... but I would now support saving them for sure if its at all possible.

    #12 rodent

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      Posted 07 May 2008 - 10:54 PM

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by BarefootBride
      Geez I feel bad now... we are going to NZ for our honeymoon and wanted to go dolphin watching and maybe swim with them... but they are all wild there - should I feel bad?
      Gosh now I feel bad for taking my little Pre Kindergarten kids to the Zoo two weeks ago. We are learning about animals and most of them will never get the see most of them if they didnt have the chance to go. I thought I was doing a good thing... yeah we enjoyed it (bad us) - MAN have you ever seen an OKAPI I never knew it existed... and it almost doesnt... but I would now support saving them for sure if its at all possible.
      This is from a dolphin site in NZ
      "When taking a tour with Dolphin Encounter┬« you must remember that these dolphins are in their natural environment and are not enticed to the boats by any artificial means. All tours are on the dolphin’s terms. Although the dusky dolphins may swim very close to the swimmers in the water, this is not a "Flipper" type experience. The dolphins are completely wild and this is not the dolphin touching opportunity many hope for."

      many of the open water dolphin programs feed the dolphins to get them to come around. This tour in NZ sounds like it might actually be ethical. I'd have to look more into it, or maybe someone else knows more about it.

      The questions of zoos is much more difficult than the swimming with dolphins to me. I personally think a good zoo (usually they are AZA-accredited zoos) are fine. Some people might feel differently. But, zoos are able to do a lot of good things for the animals and it is possible to provide them with the right habitat. I do think there are some animals that should not be in a zoo and do not agree with all zoo practices. I would not support those road-side petting zoos.

      #13 RyanAmanda

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        Posted 08 May 2008 - 01:35 PM

        Wow! Thanks everyone for the info. I debated posting this for a while because I was afraid it would end up being people yelling at each other. It's nice to know this info though so we (and our guests) can make an educated decision.

        THANKS!!!

        #14 rodent

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          Posted 08 May 2008 - 02:05 PM

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by RyanAmanda
          Wow! Thanks everyone for the info. I debated posting this for a while because I was afraid it would end up being people yelling at each other. It's nice to know this info though so we (and our guests) can make an educated decision.

          THANKS!!!
          I'm glad you did. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm yelling. I just feel passionatly about it because I was so happy a friend gave me the info & prevented me from supporting it. So it is hard for me to hold back & not spread the word. Once I read about dolphin programs it really broke my heart to know what goes on. It also makes to so sad that the type of people who would be interested in something like this are people who love animals & dolphins. I felt like they just must not know the truth about it if they were still chosing to do it.

          I do many things that I'm sure others out there consider unethical so I'm not passing judgement. We all have to make the decisions for ourself, but it should be done with knowing the facts. Which is why I think it's so important to get the truth out there.

          #15 BarefootBride

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            Posted 10 May 2008 - 10:59 PM

            Thanks Morgan, when you get a chance can you PM me the name of this company that does these dolphin watches. I have no plans to touch them but Ive seen some photos of friends kayaking and there you see a dolphin swimming right pass them so nonchalantly! I think thats neat!

            #16 rodent

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              Posted 10 May 2008 - 11:18 PM

              Quote:
              Originally Posted by BarefootBride
              Thanks Morgan, when you get a chance can you PM me the name of this company that does these dolphin watches. I have no plans to touch them but Ive seen some photos of friends kayaking and there you see a dolphin swimming right pass them so nonchalantly! I think thats neat!
              I do not know of any specific companies. I just googles "swim with dolphins new zealand" and found this website Kaikoura, South Island, New Zealand. Watch and swim with the wild dusky dolphins in the ocean

              I haven't had time to do more research on it, but from their website it looks like they might do it in a dolphin friendly way. I always try to get my info from a different source though.

              OK I just came across this. It's just from some random website though.

              Swimming with dolphins in the wild is an amazing experience because you get the opportunity to interact with these incredibly friendly and intelligent animals on their own turf.

              Unlike captive dolphins who have no choice but to interact with human beings whether they want to or not, wild dolphins can choose whether they want to stick around and swim with you and if they don't they have the freedom to simply disappear into the deep blue sea which makes it all the more special when they do decide to stay (which occurs on a frequent basis).

              There is a huge debate raging about the ethics of swimming with captive dolphins and even though there are definite benefits for humans (treatment for depression and disabilities) captivity is harmful to the dolphins as they suffer from stress and illness and have a much shorter life expectancy than similar dolphins in the wild. The demand to swim with captive dolphins also encourages capture from wild populations that are already under threat which is very detrimental to the environment.

              On the other hand, studies conducted on the effects of humans swimming with dolphins in the wild have shown that there seem to be no ill effects to the animals if it is done responsibly and sensibly (not by chasing and herding them or noisy splashing in the water).

              The jury is still out because long term trends need to be taken into consideration but until such time as the scientific uncertainty is cleared up or the dolphins move away because they are feeling harassed, responsible swimming with wild dolphins is an ethical way to interact with them and tourism revenues generated provide a strong incentive for dolphin conservation.

              So if you have a dream is to go swimming with dolphins, going the wild route with an ethical and responsible operator is the way to do it. Here are the top five places in the world to swim with wild dolphins...

              1. Kaikoura, New Zealand

              The best place in the world to swim with wild dusky dolphins because the success rate of finding and swimming with the pods is very high. The dolphins are attracted to the nutrients in the water that are available due to a 1200 meter trench situated just off the coast.

              #17 rodent

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                Posted 10 May 2008 - 11:27 PM

                And I found this from another website against swimming with wild dolphins.

                http://www.wdcs.org/....nt_April08.pdf

                The dolphin watching tour sounds good, but then the fact that they also profit from swims would make me not want to support them. I'd look for a company that only does the watches. New Zealand looks like an amazing place for dolphin & whale watching!

                sales@discovertheworld.co.uk <sales@discovertheworld.co.uk>
                Email this place & they can probably suggest a good company for you

                #18 BarefootBride

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                  Posted 11 May 2008 - 09:03 AM

                  Thanks Morgan! Im going to look into this! This is awesome! Im not too Keen on companies that charge ridiculous amounts of money for watches and swims. Thats CRAZY!

                  #19 lambert13

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                    Posted 12 May 2008 - 11:14 AM

                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Tlseege
                    Oh goodness. If you ever want to be ripped a new one, go onto TripAdvisor and ask about dolphin swims in the AKumal forum. Oh it's just hilarious!
                    Ok, I did this in Mexico. We went to Xel-ha and I loved every minute of it. yup, I'm a terrible person, I know it. I'm sorry. And I do feel bad for them. It did comfort me to know that their dolphins are not captured from the wild. Sure, 20 years ago the orginal couple were, but now every dolphin on their facility was born into captivity and they are it's family. Made me feel slightly better.

                    Ok, just a devils advocate saying. You say it's alright if the animal is domesticated... who is to say what is domesticated? Who has the right to say that one animal is stupid enough so it can be domesticated? Horses are wild animals, people just chose to domesticate them. I guess i just never really understood that point of view. Sorry
                    I just wanted to say that even though I have some very strong feeling about this, I still respect your choice to do whatever you want. If anything I just try to educate people with what I know and let them take it from there.

                    For the domesticated vs. non-domesticated, it definitely has a lot of gray areas. I can't even pretend to know all the answers. I do know that my dog (Chloe the Wonder Beagle) is definitely thick headed enough to fall under the domesticated category. That little pup would be lost without me.

                    #20 lambert13

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                      Posted 12 May 2008 - 11:17 AM

                      Wow! You really went all out with all that info Morgan. There is a lot of great stuff there to help make educated decisions.

                      I was thinking about the dolphin swim places this weekend. Even with my animal cruelty views aside, I do not think I would do it or especially bring children to it just for the safety factor. The attacks are pretty rare, but they do happen and are quite violent when they do happen.




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